HomeMy WebLinkAboutFinance & Admin - 1993-11-01FAC\1993-11-01 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES NOVEMBER 1, 1993 The Finance and Administration Committee met this date, commencing at 9:15 a.m., under the Chairmanship of Councillor C. Zehr with the following members present: Mayor D.V. Cardillo, Councillors B. Stortz, T. Galloway, G. Lorentz, J. Smola, M. Wagner and J. Ziegler. Others present: Councillor G. Leadston, Councillor M. Yantzi, Messrs. T. McKay, J. Gazzola, L. Ryan, O. den Ouden, J. Hancock, F.S. Graham, S. Klapman, R.W. Pritchard, G. Sosnoski and Ms. V. Gibaut. 1. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET Further consideration of this item was requested at Council on October 26, 1993. Council members were asked to consider initiatives to reduce the City's Capital and Operating Budgets and to submit and discuss their suggestions this date. The Committee was circulated this date with a memorandum from Mr. J. Gazzola dated October 27, 1993 summarizing the options for reduction put before Council as part of the 1991 Operating Budget deliberations. They were also in receipt of 1993 Operating Budget summary by Department and hard copy of the Pro Forma Budget presentation made on September 20, 1993. Mr. Gazzola reviewed the annualization factors and Mr. McKay pointed out that an additional $43,000.00 must be added to the Kitchener Public Library Board budget as a result of the second part of the Province's Pay Equity legislation. He explained that the additional amount relates to positions having no male comparators. Mr. Gazzola reviewed the new factors impacting the 1994 Budget and highlighted anticipated reductions in revenue and an increase in the amount allocated to Provincial Sales Tax as well as increased costs due to the impact of the Province's new Minimum Wage legislation. Councillor Galloway questioned whether it was possible to bargain with suppliers providing aggregates to the City in light of the fact that the Provincial Sales Tax will now be applied to this material. It was noted that if approached, the City could accept a proposal for consideration. Mr. Gazzola outlined the status of the Tax Stabilization Reserve Fund and highlighted the $100,000.00 grant to the Parking Enterprise for one hour free parking at selected City-owned facilities. He also reviewed the Revenue Worksheet, noting that at present the Pro Forma Budget indicates a levy increase of 2.2%, which could increase to 2.7% if assessment growth is reduced. Councillor Zehr added that approximately $1,400,000.00 would be required to reduce the levy increase to zero. The Committee consider the fact sheet entitled "Social Contract Implications and Obligations" which was circulated this date. Mr. McKay noted that the City's Provincial grant has been reduced on an annualized basis by $2,000,000.00 and reminded the Committee that the City's right to impose unpaid leave ends on March 31, 1996. He noted that if staff layoffs occur as a result of service cuts these are not considered productivity savings under the terms of the Social Contract and any saving would result in a decrease in the municipal budget. If however the service continues and the number of employees are reduced, the savings would be credited to the City's Social Contract target. In response to a question from Councillor Stortz, Mr. Gazzola advised that the Province's Expenditure Control Program has had a negative impact of $1,100,000.00 which is over and above the $2,100,000.00 as a result of the Social Contract. Consequently, Provincial grants to the City have been reduced in 1996 by $3,200,000.00. Councillor Galloway asked how non-salary productivity improvements would be allocated and Mr. McKay replied that these are shared on a 50/50 basis between the Social Contract and the City Budget, but must be sustainable. Mr. McKay informed the Committee that staff have examined the water and sewer rates and feel that a 0% increase can be accommodated in 1994. This would reduce the levy increase in the Pro Forma Budget from 2.7% to 1.7%. FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 86 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 1. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) A brief discussion took place concerning the possible impact on the municipality of the Federal Job Creation Program. Mr. McKay indicated that applicability would depend on the type of infrastructure which qualifies and whether or not the entire matter would be dealt with on a Regional basis. He outlined a number of options for financing a municipal contribution. Councillor Ziegler referred to the Expenditure Worksheet and suggested that "Other Expenses" be reduced by 1% and Mr. Gazzola indicated that this would have a $34,000.00 impact. Mr. Gazzola reminded the Committee that at present staff are budgeting 0% for inflationary growth, noting that general inflation is believed to be in the area of 2%. Councillor Ziegler asked which of the options for reduction put before Council as part of the 1991 Operating Budget deliberations have been affected by the Social Contract. Mr. McKay responded that the majority of items in the first two sections summarized in Mr. J. Gazzola's report of October 27, 1993 would go directly to reducing the municipal levy. In response to a question from Councillor Ziegler, Mr. McKay advised that the present allocation for staff training and development has been reduced by $32,000.00 in total and has not increased since 1991. Councillor Ziegler asked whether these budgets could be reduced further and Mr. McKay replied in the affirmative. Councillor Stortz referred to previous discussion concerning an adjustment to the due date for property taxes and a reduction in the interest rate and penalty charges relative to tax arrears. He asked that this issue be identified for discussion as part of the 1994 budget deliberations and that all correspondence and reports in this regard be recirculated to members of Council. Mr. Gazzola advised the Committee that the potential for savings by moving the due dates has decreased since the matter was first raised in 1991 due to the general reduction in interest rates. Councillor Galloway referred to his list of suggestions on potential budget reductions and noted that he had identified approximately 50 staff positions which should be reviewed for duplication of responsibility and questioned whether any such savings would accrue to the municipal levy. He also asked for direction as to whether these positions should be discussed in caucus. Mr. McKay advised that in his opinion it would be reasonable to discuss these in camera as they involve individuals who could be identified through the position titles. Councillor Galloway inquired as to the feasibility of reducing Capital from Current over the next three years and doubling this amount in 1996 when revenues which are now being diverted to the new City Hall would become available. He noted that in effect this amounts to borrowing on future anticipated revenues. Mr. McKay pointed out that an alternative to financing current projects based on future revenue would be to defer $1,000,000.00 of work in each of the ten years of the Capital Forecast. He added that similar options have been used in the past relative to the Province's Expenditure Control Plan. He also noted that the Capital levy has been frozen this year. Mr. McKay explained that at present staff anticipates a $6,000,000.00 shortfall in the first three years of the Capital Forecast which will necessitate moving this amount in the Forecast beyond 1996. It was also noted that financing current projects based on future revenue would require additional debenturing and Mr. Gazzola advised that the City is already at its limit based on the industrial land debt. Mr. McKay suggested that of the two options, the more desirable would be a reduction of $1,000,000.00 in each of the ten years of the Capital Forecast. He also pointed out that staff's first priority is to maintain what the City presently has rather than building new infrastructure. Mr. Gazzola advised that the majority of funds necessary to reduce the Capital levy would have to come from the General Provision which is also used to fund infrastructure maintenance. Mr. McKay pointed out that staff have screened all existing budgets for surplus accounts and as a result will return approximately $1,000,000.00 to the General Surplus. 1. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor Galloway asked whether it would be possible to borrow the money necessary to fund Capital projects from Reserves such as Sick Leave with the intention of repaying this amount in 1996. Mr. McKay pointed out that a number of Reserve Funds have already been depleted and that he would not recommend further reductions as in his opinion this is poor financial management. FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 87 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 Councillor Leadston noted that to date no solutions to the budget problem have been offered by staff. He suggested a list of possible initiatives including the contracting or sale of the golf courses and The Centre In The Square, closing City facilities such as the Kitchener Public Library and recreational facilities for one day a week and asked for staff comment. Councillor Zehr clarified that the meeting this date was designed to hear the suggestions of Council rather than specific staff recommendations. Councillor Leadston indicated his willingness to put forward a motion in the interest of stimulating discussion. Moved by Councillor G. Leadston - "That the City close all facilities one day per week, that it contract the operation of the community centres to suitable organizations and that discussions take place concerning the contracting of maintenance for City facilities to local organizations with a view to eliminating any operating grants currently provided to them." Councillor Ziegler indicated that additional information would be required from staff as to potential cost savings. Mayor Cardillo pointed out that the contracting of services has been examined in the past and cautioned against confusing operating grants with operating costs. He also asked that the components of the above motion be dealt with separately. Councillor Zehr replied that he is accepting the composite motion put forward by Councillor Leadston unless the mover suggests otherwise. Councillor Leadston suggested that the Neighbourhood Associations be polled concerning their willingness to assume responsibility for the operation of community centres on the basis that they are presently operating centre based programs. In response to a question from Councillor Wagner, Mr. McKay advised that staff investigations involving the contracting of services have taken place relative to the Humane Society and the garbage collection contract with the former initiative involving both staff and Council time totalling approximately eight months. He suggested that the contracting of community centres to an organization such the YWCA would take a minimum of one year, and that due to the number of ice users a similar arrangement regarding recreational facilities would likely take longer. Mr. Gazzola added that the operation of these facilities must present an opportunity for profit in order to be attractive to outside organizations and noted that in many cases services provided by the City are not profitable, though selective components may be of interest to the private sector. Mr. McKay added that the Social Contract specifically states that municipalities must consider performing services in-house rather than contracting these. Councillor Wagner indicated that he could not support the motion and questioned why Council was considering such extreme measures for the sake of a levy increase of approximately $10.00 per ratepayer. He stressed that the City is not in desperate financial circumstances and that the actions proposed are inappropriate. Councillor Smola suggested that with regard to closing City facilities, longer or seasonal closures should also be considered. Councillor Lorentz expressed the opinion that Council should look at alternate methods of operation for immediate and future benefit. He indicated that this type of debate is important and referred to the necessity of obtaining ratepayer input before reducing or eliminating services. He suggested that an appropriate process is required to assess the 1. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) feasibility of any cost reduction measures and advised that though he agrees with the intent of the motion he cannot support it based on the wording. Councillor Yantzi indicated he would not support the motion and noted that the City has a significant investment in public facilities and it would be inappropriate for volunteer organizations to make decisions concerning maintenance of these. He also questioned whether the proposed one day a week closing would constitute good leadership. Councillor Leadston clarified that his intention was to put forward a motion to initiate discussion and suggested that private organizations be polled to determine their level of interest regarding any of the initiatives. Councillor Stortz suggested that the motion be withdrawn or be amended to request an investigation of the three options. Councillor Leadston indicated his willingness to either withdraw the motion or amend it to direct that staff investigate the three FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 88 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 specific options and any other suggestions offered by Councillors this date with Mr. McKay to co- ordinate preparation of a report. A brief discussion took place concerning the intent and wording of the motion and Councillor Stortz asked that the minutes indicate the actions proposed in Councillor Leadston's motion do not imply random changes. Councillor Leadston withdrew his previous motion concerning facility closures and the contracting of services. Councillor Leadston put forward a motion requesting a staff report on the suggestions made by members of Council this date regarding possible budget reductions to include but not be limited to the three issues raised in his previous motion. Councillor Leadston accepted, as a friendly amendment, a suggestion from Councillor Ziegler that staff also provide input on the manner in which services could be reduced and identify any cost savings. Mr. McKay asked for clarification of the motion particularly as it relates to the closing of all facilities one day per week. He suggested that the Committee obtain details on alternate delivery methods and specify a realistic deadline for the staff report. He also questioned why the matter was being referred to staff at this time and suggested the formation of a Committee with staff support to solicit and consider public input. Councillor Lorentz replied that the Committee is asking for staff assistance and in particular that senior administrators interpret the nature and intent of discussions held this date in order to identify the various options, their feasibility and the potential cost savings. In response to the earlier question concerning clarification of what was meant by all facilities, Councillor Leadston indicated "all non-mandated or legislated facilities". The motion as amended was then put to a vote. On a motion by Councillor G. Leadston - It was resolved: "That staff investigate and report on the suggestions made by members of Council at the November 1, 1993 Finance and Administration Committee meeting relative to potential budget reductions, and that these suggestions include but not be limited to the following: the closing of all non-mandated and legislated facilities for one day per week; contracting the operation of the community centres to suitable organizations; and initiating discussions with local organizations concerning the contracting of maintenance for City facilities with a view to eliminating any operating grants currently provided to them, and further, That in addressing the above, staff provide input on the manner in which services could be reduced and identify any cost savings." 2. DELEGATION - CONESTOGA COLLEGE Dr. J Tibbits, President, Ms. H. Friedman, Chairman - Board of Governors and Mr. J. Beingessner, Chairman - Public Bodies, appeared on behalf of Conestoga College to request the City's assistance with its capital and consolidation projects. An information package was circulated to Committee members this date including a letter to Mayor D.V. Cardillo dated November 1, 1993. The letter outlines details of a Capital project with an estimated cost of $11,000,000.00 and $6,500,000.00 in funding from the Ministry of Colleges and Universities. The remaining $4,500,000.00 is to come from the community at large with pledges from students, board members and private corporations totalling $3,800,000.00 to date. Dr. Tibbits explained that the College is attempting to consolidate its operations on the Doon Campus, and Mr. Beingessner outlined the benefits to the City. He explained that there would be an increase in the number of students on the Doon Campus which would result in increased service demands in the community and additional jobs relative to the planned construction. Mr. Beingessner also noted that the City receives an annual per capita assessment from the College of $45.00 per student. He asked that the City consider collecting the assessment based on the FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 89 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 1992 pre-consolidation enrolment figures and in addition to forego any increase in revenue as a result of the planned consolidation for a seven year period in order to allow these funds to be diverted to the proposed Capital project. Mr. Beingessner advised that the funds re-directed between the years 1993 and 2000 would total $339,750.00. He also noted that an increase of approximately 1,300 students is expected over this period. Mr. Beingessner stressed that the College needs the municipality's assistance and feels that the proposal is fair, innovative and will not have a significant impact on the City's budget. He asked that in the event the above proposal is unacceptable the City at minimum insure that the College's municipal taxes do not increase beyond the general mill rate. Councillor Zehr clarified that the assessment referred to is levied at the rate of $75.00 per student, the City's share of which is $45.00. He questioned whether Dr. Tibbits was referring to the City's share of the assessment alone and he replied in the affirmative. Mr. Beingessner clarified that the College wishes to insure that its municipal taxes do not increase in the near term as a result of an increase in the number of students. Councillor Ziegler asked for the tax value of the College based on the residential mill rate and Mr. Gazzola replied that this would depend on the value of the buildings and other factors. He advised that a figure could not be provided at this time but Finance staff could investigate if required. Mr. Beingessner acknowledged that the tax rate is low, but expressed the opinion the College should be taxed as an educational facility rather than a private corporation. Mr. McKay clarified that staff would likely consider the request from the College as a grant. Councillor Leadston inquired as to the feasibility of Conestoga College students managing City facilities such as community centres on a co-operative basis. Dr. Tibbits replied that the College has a number of private and public sector partnerships and is willing to consider such an arrangement subject to mutual benefits, union contracts and learning benefits to the students. He stated that the College is generally open to any creative and entrepreneurial arrangements. By general consent, further consideration of the request from Conestoga College was referred to the 1994 Budget deliberations. 3. CAUCUS ITEMS The Committee resolved itself into caucus to consider two items and following this reconvened its regular meeting. 4. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor Galloway suggested that the management/supervisory positions in each Department be examined to identify any duplication of responsibilities. If appropriate, he suggested that the possibility of compression be examined in certain areas over and above the attrition method previously endorsed by Council. Moved by Councillor T. Galloway - "That Council review the City's existing commitment with regard to layoffs as a result of redundant positions identified as part of the Continuous Improvement Process, and further, That each City Department be examined to identify any overlap in the responsibilities of management positions down to and including lead hands in order to assess the feasibility of staff compression." Councillor Galloway clarified that he sees no reason why unionized positions cannot be considered as part of the above initiative. Councillor Wagner questioned whether this is intended to apply to members of Council and Councillor Zehr expressed the opinion that this should be a separate issue. Councillor Galloway added that the issue involving the number of Ward Councillors is also on his suggested list. FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 90 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 Mr. McKay suggested that the Committee keep the issues of Continuous Improvement Process and organizational structure separate. He also suggested that the report previously received by Council concerning restructuring of the municipal organization be revisited. Mr. McKay pointed out that the purpose of "de-layering" in organizations is to foster team work not to eliminate staff. He also advised that there would be payoffs as a result of the early retirement incentive program but these would not have a significant impact on the 1994 Budget. The previous motion by Councillor T. Galloway that the City review its commitment regarding layoffs as a result of the Continuous Improvement Process and instigate an examination of management responsibilities was voted on and . CARRIED Councillors G. Lorentz and J. Smola asked that it be recorded they did not agree with the Committee's decision to discuss the issue of staffing in caucus. By general consent, the Committee agreed to adjourn and reconvene immediately after the Community Services Committee meeting this date to consider the balance of the its agenda. The meeting adjourned at 1:05 p.m. and reconvened at 1:55 p.m. Councillor Lorentz asked for comment on the status of the City Hall Memorial Painting Proposal from Mr. R. Wanka and Councillor Wagner replied that consideration was referred to the Arts & Cultural Advisory Committee which is presently under formation. By general consent, it was agreed that given the delay in formation of the Committee, this item should be placed on the November 15, 1993 Finance and Administration Committee Agenda and Mr. R. Brown and Mr. R. Wanka notified. Councillor Zehr suggested that the municipality pursue greater co-operation with the City of Waterloo and the Region of Waterloo regarding the co-operative use of in-house services, specifically: an expansion of the co-op purchasing initiative; greater co-operation between the City of Kitchener and Waterloo in providing joint recreational facilities and organizing cultural activities; expansion of existing co-operation with regard to Economic Development; investigate economies regarding dispatch and coverage as they relate to the Fire Departments; the use of printing services in both Municipalities and the Region to accommodate overflow rather than use of private services; shared utilization of equipment for road repair and maintenance. Mayor D.V. Cardillo entered the meeting at this time. 4. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor Wagner suggested that the above be initially pursued through a meeting of the Twin Cities Committee, including an invitation to both Mayors. Councillor Zehr indicated his interest in attending the proposed meeting. A brief discussion took place concerning a number of cost saving measures including the merits of leasing as opposed to owning vehicles and equipment, combining fire prevention and inspection duties and charging for excessive use of fire services particularly as its relates to false alarms. Mr. McKay also pointed out that initiatives to increase inter municipal co-operation have already been undertaken and referred to a meeting of Chief Administrators who are currently drafting a proposal report. Mr. Graham also advised that greater co-operation has already been pursued in the areas of recreation and culture and expressed the opinion that if this is the wish of Council a greater measure of political direction and endorsement is required. Councillor Lorentz suggested that the initiatives proposed by Councillor Zehr would be more appropriately discussed by the Councils involved rather the Twin Cities Committee. He also asked that staff investigate the possibility of conducting in-house staff training on evenings or weekends rather than during normal business hours. Mr. McKay responded that this would likely depend on the nature of the course and whom it benefits most, noting that the suggestion of Councillor Lorentz may have greater applicability to personal development courses. Mr. Graham added that at present many staff members already take night courses. Councillor Lorentz asked that the issue of magazine and newspaper subscriptions by City FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 91 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 Departments be investigated and Mr. McKay replied that the latter is already being looked at. Councillor Lorentz also raised the issue of memberships in professional associations and organizations which are currently paid by the City. Councillor Zehr asked that Mr. Gazzola address the dollar amounts involved. Councillor Lorentz noted that there is little in the way of either cost justifications or activity summaries provided in conjunction with the budget process and in particular sited recreational programs. Mr. McKay advised that staff had discussed the possibility of program budgeting, however, this initiative was put on hold in light of the disruption caused by the Expenditure Control Plan and the Social Contract. Councillor Lorentz suggested that the rationale for programs and expenditures should be investigated every three to five years. Councillor Zehr added that this could be revisited in the Spring following the 1994 Budget process and that each department could list the types of programs offered by them and make a presentation to their respective Standing Committees. Mr. McKay pointed out that Department Annual Reports are regularly tabled at the appropriate Standing Committees, but at present these are not dealt with in any comprehensive way. Councillor Stortz suggested that staff should be left to deal with the details of municipal administration, with Council providing the necessary policy direction. A brief discussion took place concerning how the various suggestions submitted this date would be dealt with. Councillor Wagner again suggested that the issues relating to inter municipal co- operation be initially referred to the Twin Cities Committee and be dealt with at a political level. Councillor Lorentz expressed the opinion that staff should come forward with detail recommendations for consideration by Kitchener Council before approaching Waterloo. Mr. McKay noted that Waterloo Mayor Turnbull has already established a forum for dealing with such issues and this could encompass some of the suggestions made this date. On a motion by Councillor M. Wagner - It was resolved: "That the issues raised at the November 1, 1993 Finance and Administration Committee regarding increased co-operation between the Cities of Kitchener and Waterloo with a view to realizing mutual cost savings be initially referred to the Twin Cities Committee for consideration and a special invitation extended to the Mayors of both Kitchener and Waterloo." 4. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor Ziegler put forward a motion to eliminate all personal interest courses from the Training and Development Budget. Mr. McKay suggested that a breakdown of the costs involved be obtained prior to making a decision and Councillor Ziegler agreed to so amend the main motion. On a motion by Councillor J. Ziegler - It was resolved: "That subject to receiving and considering a breakdown of related costs, all personal interest courses be eliminated from the staff Training and Development Program." Councillor Ziegler suggested that if the cost is at all significant, out of country insurance benefits should be eliminated. Mr. Gazzola advised that this item was an add on to the policy at no cost to the City, but suggested that if Council wished to investigate this further, they should tender as a separate quote to determine the cost to the insurer. Councillor Ziegler referred to the publication given to all new employees which outlines the City's benefit package. He questioned whether this entire package would be appropriate for each and every employee group and asked for a list by Union Contract and by benefit. Councillor Ziegler inquired as to the number of Contract Planners presently on staff and Mr. McKay advised that there is only one who will leave the City at year end. Councillor Ziegler inquired as to the current role of Planning Staff who are undertaking work not related to the development industry. Mr. McKay reported that major planning initiatives are underway with regard to the City's west side and transportation routes. Councillor Ziegler expressed the opinion that given the recession it would be reasonable to assume work shrinkage in the Planning and Development Department and asked for figures relative to the size of the Department before and since the last recession. Mr. McKay reminded the Committee that the Planning and Development FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 92 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 Department presents a comprehensive Work Plan each year for consideration by the Planning and Economic Development Committee. Councillor Galloway inquired as to the impact of delaying Stage 7 of the Comprehensive Zoning By-law for two years as well as Community Plan and Secondary Plan Reviews. Mr. McKay suggested that this item be referred to the Planning and Economic Development Committee for consideration. Councillor Galloway replied that he could not agree to this direction and Councillor Zehr expressed the opinion that this would be primarily a budget issue. Councillor Stortz suggested that the 1993 Work Plan for the Planning and Development Department also be reviewed as staff reduction decisions cannot be made by looking at the growth in the number of employees alone. Councillor Lorentz inquired as to the impact of reductions in Building Permit revenues on Department staffing. Mr. McKay replied that the Department is dealing with the same number of applications though the projects are smaller and generate less revenue. Mr. S. Klapman confirmed that staff are presently addressing an inspection backlog and that renovations are continuing and in fact increasing. He added that the type of inspections have changed but the volume remains constant. Councillor Ziegler expressed concern over the role of the City's Economic Development Department, noting that only so much can be done given the state of the overall economy. He questioned the value of staff contacting local industries if this does not generate sales. Mr. McKay advised that the principal purpose of the Department is to generate economic activity and that the majority of their time is spent helping and advising small businesses. He expressed the opinion that this is the time to work harder, as activities are geared to long term growth. Ms. Gibaut stated that the number of inquiries has not decreased, however, more time is required to make sales. She noted that staff spend a great deal of time in responding to inquiries and sending out information designed to foster local business growth. She added that on a per capita basis Kitchener spends less on Economic Development than other area municipalities. 4. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor B. Stortz asked whether there is any strategy in place to dispose of business assets such as the Huron Industrial Park. Mr. Gazzola noted that this area requires approximately $3/4 million per year in carrying charges irrespective of the capital investment. Councillor Stortz expressed the opinion that now is the time to consider options for disposing of these assets. Councillor Smola asked whether this would include the Lancaster Business Park and Mr. McKay replied that the figures referred to by Mr. Gazzola are for all industrial lands, and noted that there are also sales pending. Councillor Smola questioned the appropriateness of considering the sale of serviced lands to the development industry which initially requested these and have not subsequently purchased them. Mr. Gazzola advised that debentures would likely be required to dispose of these assets. Councillor Wagner asked for information concerning the projected budget for the Employee Recognition Dinner as well as the number of previously retired employees and their spouses who are invited back annually. Councillor Galloway suggested that the feasibility of four man crews be looked at relative to Fire Station #6 and other stations in the City. He also suggested consideration of the nightly closing of Fire Halls on a rotating basis throughout the City. Fire Chief Hancock replied that four man pumper crews are already standard throughout the City and were made necessary by the Social Contract. Rotating closures could however be examined. Councillor Galloway indicated that he does not understand the function of the Housing Division beyond the services provided by Kitchener Housing Inc. Mr. McKay pointed out that there has always been a housing component of the Planning and Development Department and that at present there are only 1 1/2 City employees, with the majority of staff working for Kitchener Housing Inc. Councillor Galloway also suggested that Council reduce their Training and Seminar account by a minimum of 25% and discuss a possible reduction in the number of Wards from 10 to 8. Mr. Pritchard advised that the Ward reduction cannot take place prior to the upcoming election as potential candidates will have to be advised shortly of the January 1, 1994 registration deadline and the boundaries would have to be finalized by that date. Councillor Ziegler suggested that the FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES- 93 -NOVEMBER 1, 1993 question of Ward reduction could be put to the electors in the upcoming municipal election. Councillor Zehr advised that he had noted 21 suggestions from members of Council and that each would be directed to staff for investigation and consideration during budget deliberations. He also suggested that all resolutions this date involving possible budget reductions be kept at the Committee level and not be forwarded to Council at this time. With respect to the Ward boundaries, Mr. McKay suggested that Council may wish to direct the Clerk to make recommendations concerning boundary revisions and a reduction in the number of Wards. Councillor Leadston asked that Mr. Pritchard provide in writing the advice he gave to Council this date, and in addition outline scenarios regarding Regional representation. Councillor Stortz indicated that he is not opposed to an 8 Ward system, but that direct election to Regional Council is also required. Councillor Lorentz stated that he is uncomfortable putting staff in the position of revising Ward boundaries, and consideration should be given to employing a third party in this regard. On a motion by Councillor J. Ziegler - It was resolved: "That all suggestions made by members of Council this date concerning possible budget reductions be referred to staff for investigation and a subsequent report to be considered as part of the 1994 Budget deliberations." By general consent, the Committee agreed to defer consideration of two of its agenda items relative to the location of Standing Committee meetings and the programming of the Civic Square to the November 15, 1993 Finance and Administration Committee Meeting. 4. 1994 PRO FORMA BUDGET (cont.) Councillor Smola requested that all individuals who attended the meeting earlier this year regarding the Dog Licensing and Kennel issues be advised of the Committee's intention to revisit the 10 dog limit at the November 15, 1993 meeting. 5. NEXT MEETING The next regularly scheduled meeting of the Finance and Administration Committee will be held on . Monday, November 15, 1993 6. ADJOURNMENT On motion, the meeting adjourned at 3:50 p.m. _________________________________ G. Sosnoski Manager of Corporate Records/Assistant City Clerk