HomeMy WebLinkAboutCommunity Svcs - 1996-09-16CSC\1996-09-16
SEPTEMBER 16, 1996
COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE MINUTES
CITY OF KITCHENER
The Community Services Committee met this date, under the chairmanship of Councillor G. Lorentz,
commencing at 3:05 p.m., with all members present except Councillor T. Galloway.
Others Present:
Ms. S. Frenette, Ms. V. Gibaut, Messrs. L. Bensason, J. Gazzola, R.W. Pritchard, M.
Price, T. Clancy, T. Boutilier, R. Arnot and Ms. D. Gilchrist.
1. ST. JEROME'S CENTRE FEASIBILITY STUDY
Councillor G. Lorentz thanked those in the audience and the delegations for attending. He
advised that the purpose of the meeting is to consider the Feasibility Study on the St. Jerome's
Centre. Each delegation would be heard and then the Committee would have time for discussion
and a decision would be reached.
Mr. D. Bourgeois addressed the Committee and thanked them for their support to date for the
study and for holding this special meeting. He advised that his presentation would review the
background for the study and the recommendations. He also advised that he had not come today
to ask the City for $7,000,000. Following his presentation, he advised that there would be other
speakers.
Mr. Bourgeois then gave background information on the study and advised of the free services
and financial contributions received to date, stating that in total approximately $50,000 - $60,000
has been donated so far, in cash and professional services.
He advised that the Friends of St. Jerome's were asked to carry out this study, on both buildings,
even though their interest had initially been the theatre. Consequently, their resources have been
diverted from their project to a much larger project.
He then advised that the findings in this study have been corroborated by other studies done in the
community. The consultants concluded that there is a demand for two theatres in this building and
that these two theatres could be occupied 237 nights per year. This study shows that there is a
demand for this type of facility. Further, Mr. Bourgeois stated that this type of project is consistent
with the planning for the downtown, with respect to the zoning by-law and Official Plan, and it is
also consistent with the Downtown Action Plan and Culture Plan. The project also meets the
objectives of the Adaptive Re-Use Committee.
Mr. Bourgeois advised that the study concludes that the buildings are structurally sound and
adaptable for this type of use. Further, the study also provides options for ownership. Mr.
Bourgeois stated the opinion that the building should be viewed as part of the public infrastructure
for this community.
Mr. Bourgeois then displayed a site plan, with the aid of the overhead projector, which was taken
from the feasibility study. He gave an explanation of what functions would take place in each part
of these buildings including the theatres plus retail and space for professional offices such as
architects. He advised that the existing residence would eventually be demolished for parking. He
also noted that the study recommends some kind of access from the College Street building to
Duke Street.
Mr. Bourgeois then addressed the matter of budgets, stating that it is important to look at budgets
that are feasible for this day and age. Concerning the capital budget, Mr. Bourgeois advised that
the consultant was asked to look at the highest and best use. He was also asked to include the
highest cost so there would be no surprises. Mr. Bourgeois stated that the budget can be reduced
through other ways such as sweat equity, donations and fundraising.
Mr. Bourgeois then addressed the benefits of such a project to the community such as: bringing
people downtown, money being spent in the community, heritage benefits, community
development and an opportunity for the arts and culture community to flourish. Mr. Bourgeois then
explained the community support received to date, including financial support received and
promised from individuals, professionals and companies. He stated that there is support from the
fundraising perspective; however, there must be support from the City in order to gain this
community support.
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CITY OF KITCHENER
1. ST. JEROME'S CENTRE FEASIBILITY STUDY (CONT'D)
Mr. Bourgeois made it clear that the arts community is not asking for a blank cheque or any
cheque today. He made some suggestions of steps which could be taken. He suggested that the
feasibility study could be referred to staff for review. The Downtown Development Team could be
approached for their assistance to determine what other interest there may be in the building. The
Adaptive Re-Use Committee could review the study. Staff could review the study with an eye to
purchasing the buildings and mothballing them, if necessary. Mr. Bourgeois advised that the
Congregation of the Resurrection have made it clear that they intend to apply for their demolition
permit in November.
Mr. Bourgeois then stated that a business plan could be prepared which could be worked on in
stages. A very good example of this is the Waterloo Community Arts Centre. The City of
Waterloo owns the building and the arts groups have worked on the building according to a plan.
Councillor J. Ziegler questioned how much the City of Waterloo has put into the Waterloo
Community Arts Centre and what percentage that is relative to donations. Mr. Bourgeois advised
that he did not have those figures but he would get them for Councillor Ziegler.
Councillor C. Weylie questioned how much money it would cost to buy the buildings and Mr.
Bourgeois advised that he didn't have those figures. Mr. G. Voisin, solicitor for the Congregation
of the Resurrection, was in the audience and advised that the 1907 and 1909 buildings could be
purchased for $1.00 each. He further advised that when renovating the newer buildings for St.
Mary's High School, the electrical service for the older buildings was also updated at that time, at a
cost of $600,000 and the Congregation would want to be reimbursed, in the amount of $300,000
for this expense. Further, the house would cost $300,000. Councillor C. Weylie then questioned
how long the Congregation of the Resurrection would be willing to hold off on the demolition. Mr.
G. Voisin advised that the Congregation is not entitled to a demolition permit until mid-November,
practically speaking though, the demolition would probably not take place until early next year.
Mayor R. Christy questioned perspective tenants for these buildings. He advised that there are
some 80 groups listed and questioned whether there was any firm commitment. Mr. Bourgeois
responded that these groups are listed in response to the consultants questionnaire but there are
no firm contracts yet. Mayor R. Christy then questioned operating costs. Mr. Bourgeois
responded that the capital upgrades and uses in the building will affect the operating budget.
Mayor Christy then questioned how it was expected that the operating costs would be covered and
Mr. Bourgeois responded that they may have to come to the Municipality, maybe there would be
rent from offices and there may be partnerships with others on the site. Mayor Christy then
questioned how the capital and operating budgets would be evaluated if there would be no
Municipal input and Mr. Bourgeois responded that the project would be dead.
Councillor K. Redman advised that she supports this initiative and questioned if there was an
implementation plan or a business plan and what role would be expected of the City. Mr.
Bourgeois advised that there would be a request for expertise on City staff and perhaps project
management. He further advised that the business plan option would create off-ramps for partners
in the plan. When questioned who the partners would be, Mr. Bourgeois advised that this project
requires partnerships from many identified community groups. He further advised that any
movement forward would require City involvement and that the next part of the plan would be to
secure the buildings.
Councillor M. Wagner stated that he was of no doubt as to the merits of this project but questioned
where the project should go from here and what has to be done next. He asked Mr. Bourgeois for
his opinion as to what should happen next. Mr. Bourgeois responded that there must be some
action taken; however, the Friends of St. Jerome's have done what they said they would do.
There is no defined rule for the City and the arts community needs to know what the City's role will
be, if any. Further, he stated that Friends of St. Jerome's are not the developers and never have
been. Councillor M. Wagner then questioned what the continuing role of Friends of St. Jerome's
would be and Mr. Bourgeois advised that they would be willing to take on a fundraising role and
bring on-line those who have shown an interest in the project.
1. ST. JEROME'S CENTRE FEASIBILITY STUDY (CONT'D)
COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMIIlEE MINUTES
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CITY OF KITCHENER
They may be interested in operating the building and/or maybe the owners. Friends of St.
Jerome's would be willing to organize groups for sweat equity and start fundraising. Councillor M.
Wagner then stated that it sounds like Friends of St. Jerome's wants the City to do the planning
and then come back to that group. Mr. Bourgeois responded that it is important for the City to
define it's role and to give a response to the study. He stated that before the project can move
ahead it's important to know what role the City is prepared to take.
Upon questioning by Councillor B. Vrbanovic, Mr. Bourgeois advised that the feasibility study was
done for the City. Councillor Vrbanovic questioned whether a community centre should be part of
this project. He advised that he has concerns about the operating budget because operating
budgets grow on an annual basis. He questioned how revenues could be increased and advised
that he wants to see more work done in this regard. Councillor Vrbanovic then commented on the
community support for this project. He questioned what would be necessary to approach sponsors
for financial support. Mr. Bourgeois responded that until there is a consensus, this document can't
raise large amounts of money. Until there is Municipal support it is difficult to raise private support.
Councillor B. Vrbanovic then questioned whether Mr. Bourgeois felt the matching concept would
raise funds and Mr. Bourgeois responded that he thought it would.
Councillor J. Ziegler referred to the May 16, 1995 Council minutes. Mr. Bourgeois advised that
this is a different project then what was before Council at that time.
Councillor M. Yantzi stated that there seems to be a number of steps: the first it to secure the
buildings and the second to determine uses. It was his opinion that, today, the Committee should
look at stabilizing the buildings. Mr. Bourgeois responded that stabilizing the buildings is important
because if the buildings can't be secured then they can't get financial support from the community
groups.
Mr. S. Scadron-Wattles then addressed the Committee advising that there is a need for a mid-
sized venue in this community. There is a need for at least a 300 seat house for touring
companies to do a 2 - 3 night stand. Mr. Scadron-Wattles spoke of many artistic companies which
need this size of facility. He stated that government needs to take the next step of securing the
building and that this building needs to be acquired.
Ms. N. Brawley stated that the Downtown Business Association has recognized over the past 5 - 6
years the importance of art and culture to the Downtown core and of heritage building stock. She
spoke in support of this project.
A representative of the Board of Catholic Family Counselling was in attendance to advise that the
Board will be meeting this Wednesday to discuss space and location needs. If this proposal
remains open then they may be interested in renting some of the non-theatrical space.
Mr. M. Quinn addressed the Committee advising that he is a graduate from St. Jerome's and is
back in this area to pursue his career. He stated that he is in support of this project because it will
make the quality of life better for this community. This facility would be designed to be accessible
to most of the community. The theatres will be an active place, according to the study.
Ms. D. Bingelman was in attendance and advised that she is a member of the Choreographers
Collective. She stated that her group needs a larger space than the Waterloo Community Arts
Centre and she felt that this project would allow for the full development of arts groups in this
community. Ms. Bingelman gave an example of the partnership experience that took place in
Waterloo with the Waterloo Community Arts Centre.
Ms. I. Price was in attendance and stated that although times are difficult, a vision for the future is
still required. She recommended that the block of Young Street, College Street, Duke Street and
Weber Street be purchased and that the buildings be stabilized and that the theatres be restored.
It was Ms. Prices's opinion that there will not be a time in the future when this project will be more
economically feasible.
ST. JEROME'S CENTRE FEASIBILITY STUDY (CONT'D)
The Chairman asked if there were any other presenters in the audience. No one responded at this
COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMIIlEE MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 16, 1996
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CITY OF KITCHENER
time.
Councillor K. Redman questioned Mr. G. Voisin
Resurrection see themselves as players in this project.
to give away the buildings.
as to whether the Congregation of the
Mr. Voisin advised that they do not, except
Councillor J. Ziegler questioned whether the courtyard is available and was advised that it is
available, subject to the lease.
Mr. W. Cross addressed the Committee and advised that he has been involved with the training of
young people in the performing arts and has worked for the Separate School Board. He advised
that as a former educator, he could see the use of these buildings by the Separate School
students; however, he could not guarantee this use.
Councillor B. Vrbanovic acknowledged and thanked the Friends of St. Jerome's and the many
others for their work involved thus far. He stated that he heard many good things about what arts
centres can do for communities. Although many good things had been said about the project, he
felt there were other things which needed to be addressed. He stated that everyone is working
under tense timelines and it was his opinion that the next step should be to refer the study to staff,
to determine an appropriate role for the Municipality. He questioned what role the Municipality
should be playing. Councillor Vrbanovic put forward a recommendation that the study be referred
to staff, including Mr. L. Proulx, the heritage staff and the Downtown Action Team with a report to
come back to this Committee prior to the Congregation of the Resurrection's entitlement to a
demolition permit. The report should include what must be done to mothball and secure the
buildings and what role the Municipality should play in this project.
Councillor M. Wagner advised that he
this would give Council an opportunity
side and whether Council should get
Friends of St. Jerome's move towards a
in November with something on this.
was in support of Councillor Vrbanovic's motion and that
to decide what dollars should be provided on the capital
involved on the operating side. He suggested that the
fundraising feasibility study and be prepared to come back
Councillor M. Yantzi advised that he was also in support of the motion and it should be determined
what other uses the building could be put to as well as a theatre and what other players could be
involved in the project. It is important to determine the different players who can work together in
this regard.
Councillor J. Ziegler advised that he could support the motion. He advised that the City has done
similar things for the Y and for the hospital. He stated that the group needs a commitment to
secure the building but that he would be prepared to recommend capital funding only and not
operating funds. Councillor Ziegler stated that the Committee needs a reaction from staff but this
shouldn't commit Council to operating the facility. Further, something should be done to secure
the buildings.
Mayor R. Christy advised that Kitchener has always supported the arts. He felt it was important to
underline the necessity of the Friends of St. Jerome's to move forward on a fundraising campaign.
Councillor Jake Smola advised that he was in support of Councillor Vrbanovic's motion; however,
he is looking for fundraising to be done to cover operating costs. He stated that he would be in
support of the City matching dollar for dollar, to a limit, for capital expenditures but not for
operating expenditures.
Councillor K. Redman advised that she was in support of the motion and she thinks there is an
important role for the City to play in brokering in this project.
On motion by Councillor B. Vrbanovic -
it was resolved:
1. ST. JEROME'S CENTRE FEASIBILITY STUDY (CONT'D)
"That the St. Jerome's Centre Feasibility Study be referred to staff, including the Director of
Facilities Management, the Heritage Planner and the Downtown Action Team, for a report
COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMIIlEE MINUTES
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CITY OF KITCHENER
to be considered by City Council at its meeting of November 12, 1996, and further,
That this report include, among other things, what would be required to mothball and
secure these buildings until put to their ultimate use, and further,
That the report include suggestions as to what role the municipality should play in this
project."
ADJOURNMENT
On motion the meeting adjourned at 5:00 p.m..
Dianne H. Gilchrist
Committee Secretary