HomeMy WebLinkAboutHeritage Kitchener - 1999-10-15H E RITAG E\1999-10-15
HERITAGE KITCHENER MINUTES
OCTOBER 15, 1999 CITY OF KITCHENER
Heritage Kitchener met this date, chaired by Councillor J. Haalboom, commencing at 10:15 a.m., with the
following members present: Ms. G. Engel, Ms. P. Wagner, Mr. M. Badran and Mr. P. Bufe. Mr. B. Scott
was in attendance for part of the meeting.
Regrets: Ms. C. Martindale
Others present: Messrs. L. Bensason, L. Masseo and Ms. D. Gilchrist.
1. ALTERATION APPLICATION - 209 VICTORIA STREET SOUTH - DREWLO HOLDINGS
Mr. V. Labreche and Mr. S. Patterson of Planning and Engineering Initiatives, Mr. R. Tome,
Architect and Mr. J. Sennema of Drewlo Holdings were in attendance with respect to their
designated property alteration application for 209 Victoria Street South, which is located in the
Victoria Park Area Heritage Conservation District.
Mr. L. Masseo, Intermediate Planner, was in attendance to review, with the Committee, those
planning applications received by the Department of Business and Planning Services for this
property. Mr. Masseo noted that the proposal has change to allow for the construction of a seven-
storey apartment building adjacent to Henry Street with a nine-storey tower adjacent to the railway
lands. Mr. Masseo then explained the revisions to the Committee of Adjustment Application for
Minor Variance. Concerning the requirement for floor space ratio, Mr. Masseo read the definition
for floor space ratio from the Zoning By-law and explained the intent of floor space ratio. He
advised that the department is of the opinion that approval of a minor variance for floor space ratio
is not required; however, they still need approval of a minor variance for the building height. Mr.
Masseo then noted that a community meeting was held several weeks ago, resulting in the change
of the building height so there would be less of an impact on the Henry Street properties. Mr.
Masseo then explained the three zoning categories affecting this property and what is permitted on
the site. He noted that development is prohibited on the hazard lands zoned P-3.
Mr. P. Bufe advised that he did not agree with Mr. Masseo's interpretation of floor space ratio. Mr.
Masseo again read the definition of floor space ratio from the Zoning By-law and explained the
Department's interpretation.
Mr. V. Labreche addressed the Committee thanking them for holding this special meeting. He
briefly reviewed the history of this application and proposed development and reviewed the
Committee's concerns from the September meeting. He then noted that, on September 15, 1999,
a subcommittee of Heritage Kitchener had met with him and indicated that they liked the second
set of plans, as that set of plans included more architectural features in common with the District.
He then reviewed the remaining issues. Mr. Labreche noted that, on September 23, 1999, an
informal neighbourhood meeting had been held and he listed the main issues arising from that
meeting, including, traffic on Victoria Street, water service, outdoor lighting and aesthetics. When
the residents were questioned about a seven-storey building on the Henry side of the property and
a nine-storey building adjacent to the railway, there was overall favour to this option.
Mr. R. Tome, Architect, reviewed with the Committee the drawings dated October 5, 1999, which
were displayed for the Committee's benefit. He pointed out the changes which had been made,
including: a change in the roofline over the pool area, additional details around the brick wall, the
two-storey mansard roof on the top two storeys of the building and the fact that the building had
been stepped back, at the two top storeys of the building facing the park.
Mr. V. Labreche then referred to the site plan noting the P-3 hazard lands, which directly abut
Victoria Park. He noted that this site complies with the FSR-1.0 with the entire lands owned by
Drewlo Holdings and that the Planning Department has reviewed this matter in great detail. He
requested the Committee's recommendation for the approval of this application as it meets the
requirements of the Heritage Conservation District Plan. Mr. Labreche also explained its
compliance with the policies contained in the City's Official Plan and explained that the third set of
drawings abides by the new building policies contained in the Heritage Conservation District Plan.
Mr. B. Scott entered the meeting at this time.
ALTERATION APPLICATION 209 VICTORIA STREET SOUTH - DREWLO HOLDINGS -
CONT'D
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Councillor J. Haalboom questioned the roof on the middle section of the building and Mr. Tome
responded that it was proposed to have metal cladding. Councillor Haalboom noted a specific
type of fish scale cladding on mansard roofs and Mr. Tome advised that he could look into that and
see if there is material available, which will simulate that look. Councillor Haalboom then noted
that the mechanical equipment on the top of the roof is visible and Mr. Tome responded that it
would be visible but it will be covered and you would not be able to see the equipment. A brief
discussion then took place as to whether the roof top equipment is included in the permitted height
of the building.
Mr. L. Bensason referred to materials in the building and there was a brief discussion concerning
the amount of each type of material to be used in the building.
Mr. R. Dyck, resident of the Victoria Park Area Heritage Conservation District addressed the
Committee. The Committee members had been provided with copies of a letter from Mr. Dyck to
Mr. Bensason concerning this proposed development. Mr. Dyck addressed the Committee
advising that he was concerned about what would actually be seen. He felt that the west elevation
would be monotonous. He also stated that the development seems massive for that site and
recommended keeping it lower and doing some further treatment on the west elevation. He
suggested using more brick for a warmer feel. He continued to review some of his concerns with
the proposed development.
Ms. P. Wagner questioned Mr. L. Masseo concerning the elevator shafts and mechanical rooms
on the roof noting that they will be seen from the park. Mr. Masseo agreed that they would be
seen but that they would be housed to improve their appearance.
Mr. Bensason then again commented on the materials proposed for the building including the
stucco, the metal cladding and the drop cornice. Mr. Bufe suggested that if the Committee was to
get involved in the materials and details it would need to see samples of the material.
Councillor J. Haalboom questioned Mr. Bensason as to how the Committee would comment to the
Committee of Adjustment. Mr. Bensason advised that there is no longer a minor variance for floor
space ratio and that the height variance included such a small area of the building. Mr. Masseo
reviewed the height of the buildings and why the department could support the approval of a minor
variance for the height at the Committee of Adjustment.
Mr. V. Labreche asked for an opportunity to respond to Mr. Dyck's comments. He noted that the
Drewlo building located at Queen and Courtland is not in the Heritage Conservation District. He
noted that this particular building is dense and high because the zoning by-law allows it. With
respect to the site at 209 Victoria Street South, Mr. Labreche stated that the floor space ratio is 1
and there are also hazard lands included and the regulations are quite different from the
Queen/Courtland site. He commented that he was very concerned about Mr. Dyck's comments
because Mr. Dyck has not been a party to this and has not seen the detailed plans.
Mr. Bensason then explained the options open to the Committee with respect to recommending a
decision to Council: approval, approval in principle or refusal with reasons. He noted that it was
unlikely to ever get 100% compliance with all the policies. He reviewed the policies and
questioned the Committee as to whether enough has been done and whether or not there is a
balance.
Mr. P. Bufe stated that he felt that it was still not possible to judge this application in relation to the
Heritage Conservation District Plan. In visualizing the whole, especially the mass of the building,
he did not think it complied with those policies. Mr. Bufe then referred to the materials to be used,
and the impact of the utility buildings on the roof, stating that he felt that they were inappropriate in
relation to the Heritage Conservation District Plan. He felt the human scale was lacking. With
respect to the floor space ration, Mr. Bufe felt that it was excessive when looking at the area the
building is located on and, with respect to impact, he felt the proposed development was not much
different that the development at Queen Street and Courtland Avenue.
ALTERATION APPLICATION 209 VICTORIA STREET SOUTH - DREWLO HOLDINGS -
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Ms. P. Wagner questioned whether there was a need to make a decision at this meeting. Mr.
Masseo noted that this application will go to the Committee of Adjustment on October 26, 1999
and the site plan approval is pending the Committee of Adjustment decision and the Heritage Act
decision.
Mr. Bensason questioned whether the Committee felt the intent of the Heritage Conservation
District Plan policies have been met. Mr. M. Badran suggested that a final decision be held until
the Committee's next meeting. With respect to comments to the Committee of Adjustment, Mr.
Bensason noted that this Committee makes comments to staff. Mr. L. Masseo again reviewed the
floor space ratio interpretation and noted that the building height is a problem because there is a
sanitary sewer easement and they are not able to move the building farther back on the site.
Mr. Labreche questioned protocol with respect to Heritage Kitchener being a Committee of Council
and whether they had the right to comment to the Committee of Adjustment. Mr. Masseo
explained that Heritage Kitchener comments are usually outlined in the Planning Department's
comments to the Committee of Adjustment. He also noted that, although the Heritage Kitchener
comments are relayed to the Committee of Adjustment, the Department's position will not
necessarily agree with Heritage Kitchener's position. There was a discussion following Mr.
Masseo's explanation by some of the members of the Committee as to whether they should submit
their own comments to the Committee of Adjustment. Mr. P. Bufe suggested recommending to the
Committee of Adjustment or staff they consider the floor space ratio. He felt that this was a major
variance and could require a zone change. Mr. P. Bufe felt this was important to the district
because it allows for the mass of the building and should be looked at because it impacts on the
Heritage District. Councillor Haalboom questioned the height variance to go to the Committee of
Adjustment and Ms. P. Wagner suggested that the height impacts on the district. Mr. L. Bensason
then explained the procedure to get comments to the Committee of Adjustment. He also noted
that 90% of the building mass complies with the by-law requirements and it would take very little to
change the building to avoid a Committee of Adjustment application altogether. Mr. Bufe then
stated that he had objections to the floor space ratio. Mr. B. Scott suggested that the floor space
ratio is the key issue to the neighbourhood. There followed a further discussion on the
interpretation of the Zoning By-law and the Heritage Conservation District Plan. Mr. Scott spoke of
the mass of the building and the neighbourhood's concern with the mass of the building.
With respect to the Alteration Application, Mr. P. Bufe suggested deferral because the Committee
has not seen the samples of the materials to be used in the building; because of the wall/fence
along the whole stretch of Victoria Street and along the park, which makes this a walled
compound.
Ms. P. Wagner noted that the plan has been altered to Heritage Kitchener's suggestions. She
advised that she would like to see samples of the building materials. She made suggestions with
respect to the cornice and questioned whether the colours were suitable. Councillor Haalboom
questioned the Committee with respect to its comments regarding the equipment on the roof. Mr.
Scott noted that the Heritage Conservation District says that the roofing materials shall be
screened. He stated that the mechanical structures should be screened. He noted also that he
felt there was not enough brick and he would like to see two thirds of the building in brick.
Councillor Haalboom questioned whether the proponents were willing to come back to the
Committee's next meeting with this further information and clarified the requested information as
follows: samples of the building materials, screening the equipment on the roof, alternate kinds of
metal cladding and determining whether there could be more use of brick on the west elevation.
Mr. M. Badran left the meeting at this time.
Councillor J. Haalboom questioned Mr. Scott with respect to his concern of mass and density. Mr.
Scott responded that the residents in the area are concerned about the size of the development,
overall. He questioned how those elements could be mitigated and how to break
ALTERATION APPLICATION 209 VICTORIA STREET SOUTH - DREWLO HOLDINGS -
CONT'D
up the building mass. Mr. Labreche responded that the size of the project is not going to change,
as the Zoning By-law and Official Plan permit this size of building. He stated that if the Committee
is going to go back and talk about building mass again then he wanted a decision from the
Committee this date. Mr. Bensason questioned whether there was a commitment on the part of
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this Committee to make a decision on this application at the November meeting. Mr. Scott stated
that his concern was the ability to use materials to diminish the mass of the building.
ALTERATION APPLICATIONS - 122 FREDERICK STREET - REGISTRY BUILDING
Mr. B. Scott declared a conflict of interest in this application as his employer owns the building and
did not participate in any discussion or voting with respect to this matter.
Councillor J. Haalboom referred to the material attached to the agenda and the draft
recommendation circulated to the Committee this date along with a letter from Ms. C. Martindale
expressing her concern that the proposed concept is not acceptable. Her letter indicated that she
felt that the architecture of this special building should be preserved intact and she would cast her
vote against any motion that would allow cutting into the front facade, marble foyer, ceiling and
floor or removing the pillars in the main room. Councillor Haalboom noted that this project is
contingent on an application for Millennium funding.
Mr. L. Bensason reviewed the draft resolution noting that the first three clauses deal with items
included in the reason for designation. He noted that approval under the Ontario Heritage Act is
not required for alteration of the other features.
A discussion took place with respect to the removal of the columns and alternative supports and
what could be required and how that may affect the designated features.
Ms. P. Wagner suggested a motion not to approve the application. She explained her concerns
about each of the alterations as they affect the specific features of the designation. She also
questioned what would happen if the theatre did not last and who would return the building to its
original state.
Mr. P. Bufe expressed his concerns about the barrier free access and how it would affect the
designated elevations. Councillor Haalboom noted that, regardless of who goes in the building,
there will have to be a barrier free access.
Ms. P. Wagner stated her opinion that this is not an appropriate use for this building and she felt it
was necessary to stop the concept of a theatre. She noted that she felt very strongly about the
building. Ms. Wagner then read out her proposed resolution. Mr. Bufe suggested having Council
allow Heritage Kitchener to approve the details of the renovation. He noted that he had grave
concerns about the ceiling if the columns are taken out. He felt that the proposal would do too
much damage to the designated features.
Mr. L. Bensason noted that the draft resolution was based on the discussions at the Committee's
last meeting. He questioned whether approval in principle would be too much. Mr. Bufe briefly
discussed the alterations proposed for the lobby and questioned how the materials would be re-
used. Mr. Bensason noted that, if the proposed resolution no longer represents the opinion of the
Committee, then they should say so. He questioned whether there was anything that JM Drama
could do to make this into a theatre. He noted that there is an application and it requires a
decision. He noted that the applicant still needed the ability to respond.
Councillor Haalboom stated that the proponents wanted to save the building but this Committee
does not agree with the way they think they are going to save it. She noted that her main concern
is that the whole building will collapse if the columns are removed. She also expressed her
concerns with respect to the plaster ceilings and whether they would be destroyed. Mr. Bensason
stated that any resolution should indicate what this Committee still needs.
The Committee then reviewed the proposed resolution and made amendments to it.
ALTERATION APPLICATIONS - 122 FREDERICK STREET - REGISTRY BUILDING - CONT'D
On a motion by Mr. P. Bufe -
it was resolved:
"That Heritage Kitchener agrees, in principle, to the concept proposed by J. M. Drama,
to alter the Registry Building, 122 Frederick Street, for a community arts centre,
substantially as shown on the concept plans prepared by The Walter Fedy Partnership,
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dated Sep. 20/90 and numbered #18-99-19, subject to the following:
a)
That the barrier free access not be located on the Frederick Street elevation,
with the details of the final location for the barrier free access to be reviewed by
Heritage Kitchener
b)
That Item 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 on the concept plans be designed in such a way that no
portion exceeds the height of the window sills, so as not to impact any existing
window openings, with the final details to be reviewed by Heritage Kitchener.
c)
That there be no removal of any of the grey and green marble walls or the
terrazzo floors in the lobby.
d)
That the proponents submit detailed drawings for all proposed renovations, with
special emphasis on the proposed alterations to the columns and ceiling in the
main hall with those drawings to be stamped by a professional engineer.
e)
That the proponents provide assurances to Heritage Kitchener, through the
City's Chief Building Official, that no alterations will affect the structural integrity
of the building.
f)
That the proponents receive approval, pursuant to the Ontario Heritage Act, from
City Council, of the final plans for the proposed alterations to the Registry
Building, 122 Frederick Street."
125TH ANNIVERSARY OF WILLIAM LYON MACKENZIE KING
Councillor Haalboom noted that on December 17th and 18th, there will be various events
taking place in association with the 125th Anniversary of William Lyon MacKenzie King. She
noted that there would be a requiem for William Lyon MacKenzie King.
ADJOURNMENT
On a motion the meeting adjourned at 1:20 p.m.
Dianne H. Gilchrist
Committee Administrator