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LOCAL ARCHITECTURAL CONSERVATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE MINUTES
AUGUST 12, 1994
CITY OF KITCHENER
The Local Architectural Conservation Advisory Committee met this date,
commencing at 12:10 p.m., under the Chairmanship of Councillor M. Wagner, with the following members
present: Mr. V. Tarbutt, Mr. E. Bow, Ms. B. Buchanan, Ms. S. Burke, Mr. R. Coo and Ms. E. Esenbergs.
Mr. D. Parrish and Ms. M. Welsh were in attendance for part of the meeting.
Others present: Messrs. L. Bensason, T. Boutilier, J. Witmer, R. Mattice, R. Kruppa, G. Sosnoski and Ms.
L. Hare.
1. CHAIRMAN'S COMMENTS
Councillor Wagner advised of a local organization planning to relocate to the former Lang Tannery
Building, and noted that they should be commended for this decision. He also thanked those who
participated in the recent designation ceremony for the Harry Class Pool.
2.MINUTES OF THE JULY 8, 1994 MEETING
Committee members were circulated this date with a letter from Mr. Brenton Toderian, MacNaughton
Hermson Britton Clarkson Planning Ltd. dated July 26, 1994 which is attached hereto and forms
part of these minutes. The letter requests various revisions to the July 8, 1994 minutes involving
discussion of the property known municipally as 314 Old Chicopee Road. Mr. Toderian was in
attendance in supporot of his requests.
Mr. Bensason inquired whether Mr. T.B. Stanley had been consulted regarding the comments attributed
to him in the letter, and Mr. Toderian replied in the negative. Mr. Bensason suggested that he
should be consulted before the Committee considers adding to or amending his comments.
By general consent, it was agreed to amend the July 8, 1994 minutes so as to incorporate the requests
itemized in Mr. Toderian's letter as #1 and #4. This would have the following effect:
*page 23, paragraph 1 - change the sentence "Mr. Toderian advised the Committee that the owner had
always intended to keep the house" to read "..., if possible, the owner had intended to
keep the house."
* page 23, new paragraph 1 -"Mr. Bensason advised the Committee of a memorandum from Mr. D.
Mansell indicating that he has no concerns regarding the proposed demolition of 314 Old
Chicopee Road. It was noted that Mr. Mansell concurred with the analysis of Mr. Randy
Dodd, and agreed that the building could not be saved."
Further consideration of the minute changes requested by Mr. Toderian was deferred to the September 9,
1994 meeting pending comment by Mr. Stanley on items #2 and #3 of the July 26, 1994 letter.
Ms. S. Burke referred to the incorrect spelling of the word "stile" in the July 8, 1994 minutes, as it relates
to the grant application for a property she owns at 150 Water Street South/73 Heins Avenue.
By general consent, it was agreed to amend page 24, paragraph #3, of the minutes so as to change
"style" to read "stile".
3.AMENDMENT - DESIGNATED PROPERTY GRANT RECOMMENDATION (150 WATER STREET
SOUTH/73 HEINS AVENUE)
Ms. Burke explained that stiles are vertical pieces of a door, and that she has these original units relative
to the storm/screen door for the Heins Avenue entrance. She noted that these could be used as the
basis for a restoration. She asked whether the spelling error referred to earlier would have affected
the Committee's understanding of the request and the subsequent recommendation that funding
should not be provided for the storm/screen door restoration. Ms. Welsh suggested that this would
have affected the Committee's understanding of the project, and Councillor Wagner added that it
would have influenced the decision. Mr
3.AMENDMENT - DESIGNATED PROPERTY GRANT RECOMMENDATION (150 WATER STREET
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SOUTH/73 HEINS AVENUE) (cont'd)
Sosnoski noted that "stile" was spelled correctly in the report outlining the nature and scope of the
proposed work.
On a motion by Ms. B. Esenbergs
It was resolved:
"That the July 8, 1994 L.A.C.A.C. recommendation involving a
Designated Property Grant for 150 Water Street South/73 Heins Avenue be amended so as to include
restoration of the storm/screen door for the Heins Avenue entrance as a grant fundable
project."
4. REQUEST TO ALTER A DESIGNATED PROPERTY - SUDDABY PUBLIC SCHOOL
The Committee was in receipt of a facsimile transmission and drawings submitted by John Clinckett,
Architect, involving window replacement on the south, east and west elevations of the school.
Mr. Clinckett was in attendance on behalf of the Waterloo County Board of Education. He referred to the
reduced drawings in the agenda and added that the request deals specifically with the rear
elevation, and in particular, the top row of windows. Mr. Clinckett displayed the aluminum/wood
window unit proposed, noting that it is double hung, has a divided light, thermal panes, spacer bars
and muntons. He suggested that with regard to appearance, there is no appreciable difference
between a wooden as opposed to an aluminum unit, given the location of the replacement.
Mr. Clinckett also pointed out that removal of the paint from the concrete will be done using microabrasive
cleaning, with sodium bicar- bonate, rather than the poultice method referred to in his Designated
Property Grant application dated August 2, 1994.
In response to a question from Mr. Parrish concerning the present variance in the thickness of window
frames, Mr. Clinckett replied that the new units will match the existing with wood on the interior and
aluminum on the exterior only. Ms. Burke referred to problems which may occur where metal pieces
of the window unit require replacement and are no longer available from the manufacturer. She
suggested that wooden components would be easier and more cost effective to replace. Mr.
Clinckett responded that this situation would depend on whether the dies were still available as well
as the longevity of the company producing the windows.
Mr. Clinckett also advised that in addition to the concrete window sills referred to in his August 2, 1994
grant application, the owner is also planning to remove paint from the horizontal concrete banding.
On a motion by Mr. D. Parrish
It was resolved:
"That pursuant to Section 33 of the Ontario Heritaqe Act, Council approve an alteration to the designated
property known as Suddaby Public School (Frederick Street) involving removal of the existing
white paint on the concrete window sills and horizontal concrete banding using the
microabrasive cleaning method outlined in the letter of Ms. G. Sussman, Ministry of Culture,
Tourism and Recreation dated February 23, 1993, and further,
That approval also be given to replace the existing windows on the rear elevation (top row only) with the
wood/aluminum units displayed at the August 11, 1994 L.A.C.A.C. meeting by Mr. John
Clinkett, Architect."
Ms. Burke indicated her disagreement with the committee recommendation, noting that there is an
intrinsic value in preserving original building material and that the window units proposed may not
be the most effective means of reducing Iongterm maintenance costs.
5. DESIGNATED PROPERTY GRANT APPLICATION - SUDDABY PUBLIC SCHOOL
The Committee was in receipt of an application dated August 2, 1994 submitted on behalf of the Waterloo
County Board of Education by John
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Clinckett, Architect, involving the removal of paint on the precast concrete window sills at the rear of the
school.
The Committee reviewed the report of Mr. G. Sosnoski dated August 3, 1994. Mr. Sosnoski noted that
the horizontal concrete banding on the rear elevation should be added to the application as
previously indicated by the owner's representative, and that the method of application should be
changed from a poultice, to microabrasive cleaning. Mr. Sosnoski asked whether the Committee
was satisfied that the removal of paint
constituted a restoration on the basis that the sills and banding were originally unpainted. Mr. Clinckett
advised that he did not believe these items were originally painted.
On a motion by Mr. D. Parrish,
It was resolved:
"That a Designated Property Grant under the Preserving Ontario's Architecture Program for 50% of
eligible costs to a maximum of $3,000.00 be approved, in principle, for Suddaby Public School
(Frederick Street) and the grant be used to fund the removal of the existing paint from the
concrete window sills and horizontal banding on the rear elevation using the microabrasive
(sodium bicarbonate) cleaning method outlined in the report of Ms. G. Sussman, Ministry of
Culture, Tourism and Recreation dated February 23, 1993, and further,
That the above grant be subject to the following conditions:
a) The Province confirming it's funding commitment;
b) One of the five applicants who have already received grant approval in 1994/95 indicating
to the City that they do not intend to claim said grant;
c)That work does not commence prior to receiving verification from the City that grant funds
will be available for the project in light of conditions "a" and "b"; all
original receipts being submitted to the Clerks Division by April 30, 1995;
d) That when undertaking the above work the brick units on either side of the string course be
masked, no water be used during the application, pressure and volume
be kept within the minimum requirements demonstrated on site in
November of 1992, and the nozzle used be equipped with a fan tip of at
least 15°.
e)all original receipts being submitted to the Clerks Division by April 30, 1995."
6.314 OLD CHICOPEE ROAD
The Committee was in receipt of a sub-committee report prepared by P. Wagner, R. Coo, E. Bow and G.
Stoner dated July 28, 1994. Councillor Wagner summarized the contents of the report and noted
that the sub-committee had concluded "realistically and reluctantly" that designation at this time is
not in the best interest of either L.A.C.A.C. or the building in question. He suggested that
eventually, a process will have to be developed which will prevent a situation like this from occurring
again.
Mr. Coo elaborated on the sub-committee report, indicating that the difference in elevation would make
the preservation of 314 Old Chicopee Road look ridiculous. He added that designation would only
make sense if the house could be moved. Mr. Bow stated that he was concerned not only with the
house, but with the loss of attributes of the scenic road. Councillor Wagner added that he was
upset that the road had been designated as a Scenic Road in the Official Plan and suggested that it
6.314 OLD CHICOPEE ROAD (cont'd)
should not have included sidewalks and that the adjacent properties should have been lotted differently.
He offered the opinion that an
Official Plan is meaningless unless there is incremental action to implement it and a concerted effort by
both Council and staff.
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Mr. Bow pointed out that concerns had been raised over the lack of historic names in the proposed
development. He also noted that Councillor Zehr had asked to be kept informed and to receive
assurances as to the installation of rolled curbs. Councillor Wagner advised Mr. Toderian that
L.A.C.A.C. has asked to be informed concerning future landscape plans, but does not wish to be
involved in the planning process.
Mr. Brenton Toderian clarified that his firm was only recently retained by the owner and that the previous
consultant involved in this project was Weston and Associates. He added that with respect to the
preservation of the scenic road, the turning radius involved was a determining factor, and the fact
that the road was discontinuous had no impact on preservation. Mr. Toderian pointed out that
Councillor Zehr had expressed an interest in the curbing issue, and that clarification in this regard
from Paragon Engineering had been sent to him by facsimile transmission. He noted that Mr. D.
Mansell has approved semi-mountable curbs, and that both Paragon Engineering and the planning
consultant are satisfied with any type of curb that Mr. Mansell approves. He suggested that if the
Committee is opposed to semi-mountable curbs, they should speak directly to Mr. Mansell.
Mr. Toderian pointed out that his firm had little input involving the naming of streets, and again, any
concerns in this regard should be addressed to City staff. He added that his firm is amenable to the
use of other names. Mr. Toderian noted it was his understanding L.A.C.A.C. could not impose
conditions, but indicated he was willing to take the sub-committee's concerns back to the owner.
Mr. Toderian stated that
the property owner has no problem in notifying L.A.C.A.C. as to future landscaping plans, and the
Committee will be kept involved. He also asked that L.A.C.A.C. appoint a liaison in this regard, and
by general consent, the Committee appointed Mr. Richard Coo.
As regards access to the structure prior to demolition, Mr. Toderian advised that the owner has no
objection depending on how long this would take, the concern being that this request not delay the
demolition process. He also advised that Mrs. P. Wagner had indicated the sale of the property
through the Architectural Conservancy of Ontario was not feasible.
Councillor Wagner thanked Mr. Toderian and McNaughton Hersmsen Britton Clarkson Planning Ltd. for
their time and effort regarding 314 Old Chicopee Road.
Mr. Boutilier advised that Planning staff are disappointed with the results of this particular planning
process, noting that an agreement had been reached involving designation of the subject property
on a final lot. He pointed out that LAC.AC., Council and staff had worked to maintain the roadway
and provide an oversized lot for the heritage structure. In this regard, he noted that the road width
had been reduced, lot sizes altered and on this basis, staff felt all concerns had been addressed at
the draft planning stage. He noted that the grading details and impact on the house were only
known after draft plan approval was granted by the Region. Mr. Boutilier stated that he has asked
Mr. Bensason to investigate an alternative procedure which would ensure that this type of situation
does not occur again, and acknowledged that staff must accept responsibility in this regard.
Mr. Bensason indicated he is proposing a revision to the process of street naming relative to heritage
names, and that in addition, a report involving changes in the subdivision process will be included in
the September 9, 1994 agenda. Councillor Wagner asked that all staff be kept informed of any
approved changes.
6.314 OLD CHICOPEE ROAD (cont'd)
On a motion by Mr. R. Coo.
It was resolved:
"That L.A.C.A.C. accept the July 28, 1994 report of the sub-committee relative to 314 Old Chicopee
Drive."
7. REQUEST TO ALTER A DESIGNATED PROPERTY - 43 SCHNEIDER AVENUE
Mr. Harold Russell described alterations to the property involving the front door and steps as well as the
front porch. Committee members were circulated this date with a letter from Lynn, Harold and
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Dorothy Russell dated July 1, 1994 outlining the alterations and including a scaled drawing. In
addition, Mr. Russell circulated circa 1910 and circa 1935 photographs of the property.
Mr.
Russell advised that after trying power washing, and investigating chemical cleaners, he had
completed cleaning of the brickwork using a light sandblasting method. He indicated that there was
minimum damage to the brick, and as a result, the house has a better appearance. Mr. Russell
acknowledged that some may not agree with the technique used.
Mr. Russell explained that open porches were an original feature of the building at 43 Schneider Avenue,
and that in the 1950's the support columns were changed by the addition of boarding around the old
pillars. Mr. Russell advised that the boarding has been removed and he plans to retain and
strengthen the original pillars. He also indicated that he wishes to add turned spindles and railings
to either side of the front steps as well as the side porch. In this regard, he displayed a sample
spindle.
Mr. Russell noted concerns as to the use of a turned spindle on a building of Italianate design, and
circulated a slide of the Parsonage House at Niagara-on-the-Lake showing the use of spindles on
the upper balcony. Mr. Russell argued that this suggests spindles are appropriate on this
style of building. Mr. Russell also circulated a photograph from a magazine showing a railing design as
well as a magazine photograph showing the installation of railings on a front stoop.
Councillor Wagner asked that the Committee first consider the drawings submitted by Mr. Russell and
whether they fulfill the condition imposed as part of an earlier grant recommendation.
Moved by Mr. R. Coo
"That the drawings submitted by Mr. Harold Russell and appended to his letter of July 31, 1994 be
accepted in fulfillment of a condition imposed by L.A.C.A.C. as part of its July 8, 1994
Designated Property Grant recommendation relative to the design of the front porch steps."
Mr. Parrish suggested that though he supports the intent, the drawing provided little detail and only shows
the location of the proposed stairs. Ms. Burke suggested that Mr. Russell should carefully assess
the construction method to be used in order to ensure historic accuracy.
The previous motion by Mr. R. Coo relative to the drawings submitted for the front porch steps was voted
on and Carried.
Mr. Russell indicated that in addition, he was requesting permission to alter the Designated Property by
the installation of railings and spindles on the front steps and the steps leading to the front porch in
order to improve the appearance of the house and provide a greater measure of safety. He noted
that he was also asking for permission to alter the front door and apply decorative details.
7. REQUEST TO ALTER A DESIGNATED PROPERTY - 43 SCHNEIDER AVENUE (cont'd)
Moved by Mr. E. Bow
"That pursuant to Section 33 of the Ontario Heritaqe Act, Council grant permission to alter the designated
property at 43 Schneider Ave. through the addition of railings on either side of the stairs
leading to the main door, installation of a railing along the front porch, alteration of the front
door and the application of decorative detailing, all as presented to L.A.C.A.C. by Mr. Harold
Russell at the August 12, 1994 meeting."
Ms. Burke noted that the upper porch may have had railings and spindles consistent with the Italianate
style and cautioned Mr. Russell that the Building Code requirements may adversely affect the
proportions of heritage buildings. Mr. Parrish added that many commercially available materials are
inappropriately scaled and appear heavy, and suggested that Mr. Russell investigate components
of a more delicate design, especially relative to the newel posts. He recommended the use of
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square spindles and a plainer railing than was shown this date, both of which would be more in
keeping with the Italianate style of the building. Ms. Burke also pointed out that the type of doorway
proposed is not in keeping with
the Italianate style and reminded the Committee that the purpose of designation is to preserve the
integrity of the building.
The previous motion by Mr. E. Bow to approve the alterations as requested by Mr. Russell was voted on
and Carried.
Mr. Sosnoski asked for clarification as to which photograph is being used to substantiate reconstruction
for grant purposes and how the installation of railings and spindles relates to the Designated
Property Grant application recently submitted by Mr. Russell. It was generally agreed that grant
funding relative to the steps leading to the front door is separate from the installation of railings and
spindles. Further, that the design of both these and the steps leading to the front porch are to be
based on the 1932 photograph, and not the 1910 photograph initially submitted with the application.
On a motion by Ms. M. Welsh
It was resolved:
"That the July 8, 1994 L.A.C.A.C. recommendation relative to a Designated Property Grant for 43
Schneider Avenue be amended to indicate reconstruction of the front door and front porch
steps are both to be based on the 1932 photograph submitted by Mr. H. Russell to L.A.C.A.C.
on August 12, 1994 as well as the drawing appended to Mr. Russell's letter of July 31, 1994."
8. REQUEST TO ALTER A DESIGNATED PROPERTY - 25 JOSEPH STREET
Mr. R. Kruppa and Ms. L. Hare appeared and requested permission to install awnings adjacent to the
David Street elevation of the former Victoria Public School and over the entrance to the Community
Centre. They displayed drawings showing the awnings which would cover both the stairs and the
handicapped access ramp. It was indicated that the awning is required to better identify the
Community Centre entrance, to make the steps and ramp safer during winter conditions, and to
improve the aesthetic appearance of the entrance. Ms. Hare noted that the proposed awnings are
not anchored to any part of the original building, but would have a visual impact on the facade.
Mr. Kruppa explained how the awning would be constructed and installed, and displayed a sample of the
awning material. He also noted that the uprights would be painted to match the awning.
Mrs. Welsh noted that the green colour proposed may be inappropriate and suggested that a colour
should be chosen which more closely matches the existing colour scheme of the building. Mr.
Kruppa replied that the Parks & Recreation Department would likely be open to considering other
colour options.
Mr. Kruppa displayed optional proposals using different awning shapes and
8. REQUEST TO ALTER A DESIGNATED PROPERTY - 25 JOSEPH STREET
decorations.
Ms. Burke put forward a motion to approve the request as presented this date, provided the colour
chosen would not dominate the building elevation. She accepted, as a friendly amendment, a
suggestion by Mr. Tarbutt that she work with the owner's representative to determine an
appropriate colour, awning style and lettering style.
On a motion by Ms. S. Burke,
It was resolved:
"That pursuant to Section 33 of the Ontario Heritaqe Act, Council approve an alteration to the designated
property at 25 Joseph Street (former Victoria Public School) involving the installation of
awnings adjacent to the David Street elevation and over the entrance to the Community
Centre as presented to L.A.C.A.C. by Mr. R. Kruppa and Ms. L. Hare at the August 12, 1994
meeting, and further,
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That the owner's representatives work with Ms. S. Burke in selecting an appropriate colour, awning style
and lettering style."
Councillor Wagner suggested that the Committee pursue an earlier suggestion that the original tower on
Victoria Public School be reconstructed. He asked that this item be raised with Kitchener Housing
Inc. and included on the September L.A.C.A.C. agenda.
Mr. Tarbutt asked that the vote relative to proposed alterations at 43 Schneider Avenue be recounted to
ensure that the motion had in fact been carried. The vote was recounted and it was confirmed that
the motion had carried.
Ms. Buchanan questioned the rationale for allowing alterations to designated properties. Ms. Burke
referred to the actions of Mr. Russell in sandblasting the property without the permission of Council,
and suggested that the Committee has to establish a position on alterations. Councillor Wagner
suggested that this item could generate lengthy discussion and should be added to the September
meeting agenda.
Ms. Esenbergs pointed out that she had abstained from voting on the alteration proposal submitted this
date relative to 43 Schneider Avenue as she didn't feel there was sufficient information. She also
noted that the information was not included in the agenda package, or the request listed as an
agenda item. Ms. Esenberg stated that she feels strongly about the need to include such items on
the agenda and have access to information concerning the request prior to the meeting. Mr.
Bensason indicated that he had asked that this item be added as a late starter.
9. DEMOLITION CONTROL - NEW PROCEDURES
Mr. J. Witmer and Mr. R. Mattice were in attendance and gave a presentation on proposed amendments
to the Demolition Control By-law. Committee members were also circulated this date with a draft
copy of the Demolition Control By-law Review dated July, 1994 and additional recommendations as
outlined in Planning & Development Committee report 94/58 (August 10, 1994).
Mr. Mattice discussed the nature and reasons for the proposed changes, particularly as they relate to
premature demolitions. He reviewed the recommended criteria which would be used to evaluate
when it is appropriate to demolish a residential property. Mr. Bensason noted that he has
suggested some changes to the draft recommendations, in particular, the addition of the word
"streetscape" to recommendation #2(d) of report PD 94/58.
Ms. Burke expressed concern over instances where buildings are allowed to deteriorate to the point
where they are beyond saving and Councillor Wagner echoed this concern. Mr. Witmer replied that
this would be addressed through the requirement for a redevelopment plan, which would allow staff
to take a more pro-active approach in this area. Councillor Wagner added that this would not
prevent Council from overturning
9. DEMOLITION CONTROL - NEW PROCEDURES (cont'd)
requirements imposed by staff as has occurred in the past. Mr. Witmer also suggested that L.A.C.A.C.
should request routine inspection by City staff of significant heritage buildings. Councillor Wagner
asked that
this item be added to the September L.A.C.A.C. agenda.
Committee members were asked to return any comments or suggestions they may have concerning
proposed revisions to the Demolition Control By-law to either Councillor Wagner or Mr. Bensason
by August 26, 1994. If nothing is received by this date, it will be assumed the Committee has no
concerns.
10.ADAPTIVE RE-USE COMMITTEE
By general consent, consideration of this item was deferred and referred to the September 9, 1994
agenda.
11. DESIGNATED PROPERTY GRANT APPROVAL PROCESS - 1995/96
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By general consent, consideration of this item was deferred and referred to the September 9, 1994
agenda.
12.ONTARIO HERITAGE ACT
Councillor Wagner asked that Committee members forward any comments concerning proposed
amendments to the Act to either himself or Mr. Bensason.
13.ORIENTATION SESSION - SURVEY TEAM
Ms. Burke advised that a new area has been surveyed for evaluation and that a one hour orientation
session for survey team members is planned. It was generally agreed that this session would be
held at Joseph Schneider Haus on Monday, August 15, 1994 from 4:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.
14. DRAFT TERMS OF REFERENCE - VICTORIA PARK HERITAGE CONSERVATION DISTRICT
STUDY AND PLAN
Committee members were in receipt of the draft terms submitted by Mr. Bensason. Mr. Bensason
outlined activities undertaken to date and a change made to the terms of reference, namely, the
addition to section 6.2 (Commitments/Activities) of "special projects". He also referred to the
proposed district study area and the various project phases involving a district study followed by a
district plan. Mr. Coo inquired as to the amount of time and cost involved in this undertaking, and
Mr. Bensason replied that $40,000 has been budgeted for the entire project. He also noted that a
period of one year is anticipated from the date of consultant selection to completion of the plan, not
including the time required for an Ontario Municipal Board hearing and approval.
Mr. Tarbutt voiced concerns over the study boundaries, and suggested that L.A.C.A.C. is limiting itself
and has not sufficiently studied the boundaries relative to historic significance. He suggested that
more research should be done involving areas outside of the Victoria Park neighbourhood
boundaries. Ms. Burke proposed that L.A.C.A.C. be given time to survey architecture in the vicinity
and provide input into the district boundaries based on historical considerations. A general
discussion took place concerning potential district boundaries.
By general consent, it was agreed to delay the process for a period of one month, and that for purposes
of tendering a consultant, bidders be asked to provide a cost for a district as already defined, plus
additional unit costs in the event areas are added outside of the present study boundary.
15. NEXT MEETING
The next regular meeting of the Local Architectural Conservation Advisory Committee will be held on
September 9, 1994.
16. ADJOURNMENT
On motion, the meeting adjourned at 4:00 p.m..
Gary Sosnoski
Manager of Corporate Records/
Assistant City Clerk